However, Winchester and his succeeding family members successfully managed Winchester Repeating Arms Company from 1866 to 1919. An incredible collector grade limited production 1953 Model 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN SIMMONS VENT RIB that is offered below Blue Book value. JavaScript is disabled. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. An offset proof mark will boost the value compared to an aftermarket rib. Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? However, Winchesters ribs were not marked with the Simmons name and Kansas City address as mine is. Just to add th the issue, here's a note that I copied from Trapshooters.com some time age. The 3-inch shell was chambered originally in the famous Super Fox long-range double. Winchester stated both 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 shells perform satisfactorily in this [duck] gun. The ejection port of the duck gun is about 1/8-inch longer than the standard port. We have a The standard length was 2-5/8 inches. Bluing is in overall very good condition. It is the skeet style of stock with a comb drop of 1 1/2 2 1/2 inches, and a 14-inch length, butt to trigger. , Excellent Winchester Model 12 12 gauge Deluxe Skeet gun with factory issued Cutts Compensator. However, killing ducks at long range remained the objective of many duck hunters. That is true about Model 42s, but, as far as researchers know, it is not true about Model 12s. Today I have a nice collection of them, mostly target grade guns. Both guns were disassembled, cleaned and lightly oiled before testing. The ducks shot by me in the accompanying photograph were taken with Skeet boring and trap loads of #7 1/2-shot. Thats like spending 12 days straight day and night. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 5d 7h 6m 17240921. Factory original Model 12s with round post ribs were made by Winchester, not Simmons. Duck hunters bought 12-gauge doubles with 3-inch chambers to use the new Super-X magnum load, the Super Twelve as it was soon called. My gun is a pump action Model 12 shotgun with a grooved slide handle (forearm). Epic 22 Pocket Pistol: The Beretta 71 Jaguar. Charles Askins commented on the new Model 12 duck gun in the March 1936 issue of Outdoor Life: This should be the best long-range repeating shotgun now made or that has been made. No faint praise, but hardly a surprise. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Has a Cutz on the end of the barrel. 80 of 1916 indicates seven empty 12-gauge paper shell lengths (2-1/2 to 3-1/4 inches). Both shotguns shot to point of aim and all patterns were contained on the target paper due to precise aiming, facilitated by placing a 25-pound sack of lead shot between me and the gun butt. Western rapidly achieved a leading position in the ammunition industry through innovation and skillful management. the barrel and chamber are bright and clean. The silhouette provides a precise aiming point. It looks like it is in very good shape. The Model 21 received duck gun status in 1940, although 3-inch chambers could be ordered earlier. Produced in 1961. ORIGINAL BOX INCLUDED. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. L.O.P. Optional dimensions for straight or pistol grip stocks, grip caps, front sights and recoil pads were also among early options. Winchester ~ Model 12 Custom~ 12 GA Used Guns. 12 Gauge, For sale is the Winchester Model 12. Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. be complicated. The surge of zooming pinions [wings]! John Olin wanted a new 3-inch .410 shotshell with 3/4-ounce of shot for Winchesters new Model 42. Winchester Model 12 12 GA For Sale Winchester 12 GA Model 12. It was manufactured in 1962 and is a skeet grade. generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to In the 1950's Winchester's costs were losing pace with what they were ablle to sell their products for. The funds are returned to the states for wildlife restoration projects. Alex, we don't have enough info to give you an informed opinion. Experts can attest to the vast improvements they have found shooting with the Simmons Ventilated Rib. Charles Askins may have influenced the decision. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. $550 USD. I put one of those BIG soft foam risers on the comb and shot it that way for years. When I went to the university in a different town I worked for another gun shop that was an authorized Winchester Repair Center. In fact, Madis states Any twelve gauge Model Twelve could be re-chambered and reworked to shoot three inch shells for a small additional charge[by Winchester], yet few guns were reworked in this way. I can find no external differences in receiver dimensions, other than the ejection port, between standard and magnum versions. Bids. This fine shotgun comes from the factory with a Cutts choke system, Metal surfaces rate near excellent, handling marks to wood. JavaScript is disabled. And our Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 1d 7h 25m 17240921. Generally, a Simmons rib gun will bring a higher price than a plain barrel gun, and a lower price than a solid rib or Winchester vent rib gun, all other factors being equal. The perimeter of the disc was then marked and the enclosed pellet holes counted. Pandemonium! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The vent rib is stamped "SIMMONS GUN SPECIALTIES INC. KANSAS CITY, MO.". 1 9-16" DAC, 1 9-16" DAH, 14 1/2, Very good plus overall condition. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. I am tempted to stop off awhile and call. The pidgeon-grade duck gun was discontinued in 1961. The barrel is stamped "WS 1" with 2 3/4, ****SOLD******Mfg 1956, 30" 2-Pin Vent Rib, Full, B-Carved Wood, 13 3/4" Lop to Winchester Pad, Wood shows some handling marks Nothing Bad, 90-95% Blue, Shiney Bore, Buyer pays 60.00 shippin. The receiver is heavier and so is the barrel. Solid rib model 12 made in 1954. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun . A Cold War era classic with smooth lines, a legendary back story, and an exotic-sounding name, Beretta's Model 71 was definitely a mouse that roared. SN is 167xx, all numbers do match. Very good condition overall. And make the 42 any grade you want and a self described winchester know it all couldn't tell the differance and may have bought one. It still is. prior written consent of the Copyright holder. K-Mart Classics: Remingtons Nylon Rimfires Engineered To Last. Range was 40 yards from gun muzzle to target frame. Blue Book on this fine collector 12 gauge is around $2,700! Here-tofore, you could only shoot this weight of shot in a 10-gauge double gun with 2 7/8-inch chambers, or the new Ithaca Magnum 10. I included tungsten polymer shot because it is non-toxic to waterfowl and has the same density as lead. His shotguns were undoubtedly the best long-range duck guns he found in extensive testing. McIntosh notes that the Super-X shotshell was a breakthrough to the modern age of shotgun ammunition. In a full-page ad in the September 1926 issue of the American Rifleman, Western claimed Killing power 15 to 20 yards beyond the effective range of ordinary loads.This was based on a documented reduction in stringing of the shot charge, from about 20 feet to about 4 feet, at 42 yards. Such were the men of the long-range duck-hunting cult. Jack OConnor was there and sets the scene nicely in the Complete Book of Shooting. Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Vent RibManufactured in 1952. Manufactured in 1959. We limited our shooting to 25 yards or less and seldom missed. 4 chilled shot.. I pick them up through the interlacing covert, a bunch of suspicious mallards driving for safety. It also got a new action slide. John Olin initiated an analysis of Winchesters commercial line in 1942. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. community. Every cowboy needs a revolver. Mechanically excellent. Including this gun, they found a total of 4 gun with a 1919 date. The Winchester Model 1912 (also commonly known as the Model 12, or M12) is an internal-hammer pump-action shotgun with an external tube magazine. Look for an offset proof mark on the barrel to indicate whether the rib came on the gun or was fitted aftermarket. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. No Reserve. Askins stated in Modern Shotguns and Loads: All shotguns which are intended for long range work.should be patterned at 60 yards. Continuing, loads which pattern around 85% [at 40 yards] have that quality which will permit them to continue a pattern on down the range.Askins found that each yard of range beyond 40 yards reduced pattern density by an average of two percent. The new Model 12 duck gun was introduced to long-range waterfowl hunters habituated to heavy double shotguns chambered for 3-inch shells. Shopping at Guns.com gives you the backing I still have a few 2nd style action slides left. would buy from again without hesitation, Smith & Wesson S&W Vintage Screwdriver 8 Row Knurled Handle used (#234907824646), Remington 700 stamped metal Magazine Follower .222 .223 .17 used nice (#334728927905). This combination, which averaged 83.6% at 40 yards, averaged 44.2% at 60 yards! His handload was a .heavy load of Herco powder and 2 ounces of shot, either 2s or 4s. Instead of buying a gun thats Winchester Model 12 16Ga Pump Shotgun 28" Excellent condition Made in 1939 Gun #: 903285649 Seller: JerArms GA Sales: 60 $872.00 Full Details More from this Seller 1 Image (s) Winston Churchill custom Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 20 gauge, gold relief, staggering wood, provenan. on your local stores shelf, most retailers drop ship it from a warehouse in Most sellers have no idea what they are selling. w/ 22" barrel in original box w/ paperwork 1 of 1,000 #UG5 2 Paul Jaeger Jenkintown, PA. 30-06 cal. Stadt's book is a very good book that alot of people don't seem to know about. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Title. The help you need is to get a life. Winchester recognized the scarcity of ducks in their promotional advertisement of the new duck gun To Meet the New Wildfowling Conditions. I suspect most Model 12 duck guns bought before World War II were put to work on other game. Helping out a person with 3378 posts who if they spent 5min. My second blast bites off a dismayed climber. The earliest gun they found with a 2-pin rib has a serial number of 2037xx with a date of June 30th, 1919. The famous Winchester Model 1912 pump shotgun was designed by Winchester's Thomas C. Johnson. part of our network, we sell THEIR guns first whenever possible. Action works very nicely. Tommy, I would be interested in one of the guns you describe. The finishes and rib are 100% Winchester and in great condi, Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New, Winchester Model 12 pump action 12ga shotgun. I offer the following example from What Rarer Day in Buckinghams book De Shootinest Gentman and Other Tales published in 1934. Later pump guns, such as the Remington Model 870 and Mossberg Model 500, do not have the slide lock feature. winchester model 12 description: for sale is a very nice vintage winchester model 12, 12ga ga shotgun. Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. Advanced . The magnitude of this sale is appreciated when you realize how few of the special 10- and 12-gauge magnum double guns were sold. Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. *** RARE *** Winchester Model 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN limited production run that combines the pre-64 Model 12 with a 12 ga. Magnum 30" barrel, factory production 3" Magnum, with a factory Simmons Vent Rib on an upgraded wood stock! The Gun and the Times The Model 12 duck gun examined by the staff of the American Rifleman in 1936 was the earliest version. bolt act. I have a questionwhen a gun is described as having a "milled rib" I thought that referred to the fact that the barrel had posts that were milled as part of the barrel instead of being attachedI see guns described as having "round post milled ribs" I don't think that is correct? I decided to test the patterning of the five loads detailed in the accompanying table. I have often wondered how well my guns would pattern with modern ammunition. Small depression in the magazine tube, as shown in pictures. I believe the solid ribs were soft (lead) soldered like the model 21's. . Buy a Winchester Model 12 12ga., 30-inch Full choke, Simmons ventilated rib; this gun was made in 1941 (se for sale by Vintage Sporting on GunsAmerica.com the best online marketplace for buying and selling semi auto pistols, firearms, accessories, and collectibles : 963027340 Bore is excellent. Model 12 duck guns had the same six-shot capacity as the standard Model 12: one in the chamber, five in the magazine. Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga, 30" Barrel. Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 28 Gauge Single Family Owned Since 1967, Vent. A lot of us will have to begin learning to hit long-range ducks. Sounds like an invitation to join the long-range duck hunting cult! The used value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($310.78) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $447.25 . When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. the store. I don't believe their ever was a royalty, actually Simmons kept selling his special vent rib model 12's after the 1955 introduction of the Winchester Special Vent Rib @ New Haven. This test determines if excessive peening of the bolt locking cut in the receiver has occurred. Introduced in 20 gauge in 1912, 16 and 12 gauge guns followed in 1914. I would think if you did shoot you proble flinch like heck becouse ther must be a lot of jerk in you. I hunker down and blaze away. "SN:561491. Thus it was that the American Rifleman staff thought it odd that Winchester brought out the 3-inch chamber in their Model 12 pump gun. There were also many ribs installed that were Simmons' design built by Win., and Simmons rib parts purchased by Winchester and installed at Win., and ribs installed by Win. Deluxe checkered walnut, Its new in the original box with associate paperwork in wrapping paper.. has mi, Metal surfaces rate very good, handling marks to wood. Yes the 2-pin milled rib was costly to manufacture. A Simmons Rib has been added to the barrel and the metal was refinished. Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. Most books say they did not. The Olins were businessmen first and duck hunters second. Winchester Model 12 16 ga NIB Never Assembled! No Reserve. The 12 month average price is $622.51 new and $661.18 used. My 1951 Winchester Ammunition Handbook gives a comparison of 17 to 11 feet at 60 yards. Winchester dutifully shipped its duck guns with a wooden plug installed to limit magazine capacity to two shells. My wife shot her share of ducks with a 20-gauge autoloader bored Improved Cylinder shooting one ounce of #7 1/2-shot. Buy 1955 Winchester Model 12 20 GA Simmons Rib AA+ Wood: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pump Action Shotguns Shotguns Guns & Firearms All: 974012213. For small bores, there are still new factory wood sets available. is 14" with pad. Sales of 100,000 were recorded in the first two years of production. Some patterns of #4 shot might let a duck escape if it were caught just inside the margin of the 30-inch circle. Emphasis was placed on loads of #4 shot because of its historical significance in waterfowl hunting and association with the long-range objectives of the Model 12 duck gun. M, ventilated rib, mid 1950's manufacture, completely original, only one ever produced by Winchester, ultimate rarity for the Model 12 co, 12ga, #1737096, standard gun that has been restocked and has a Simmons ventilated rib added, 12ga, 30 inch barrel, full choke, 2 3/4 inch chamber, 14 3/4 inch LOP with "Decelerator" pad, blu, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood, Winchester Model 12 28 gauge Skeet solid rib. I found some they didn't. Did they actually produce any in 1919 or did it take some time to get them out to the public after patent was approved? I have the wood all refinished. Number 8 and 2 shot provided wider and more even patterns with no center thickening. Most annoying was the failure of the action-slide lock to function properly. It is first shooting light. rifle w/ Jaeger Quick Detachable scope mount 3 Remington mod. There is some difference in what they say but are good reference. Exquisite Winchester Model 12, 20 gauge with Modified bore. WARNING! The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. The Model 12 shotgun, initially the Model 1912, hit the market in August 1912. Very fine as professionally custom finished, showing 95% of the refurbished blue, with scattered rust spotting and handling marks. That luck ran out following World War I when the arms industry declined and the management of Winchester was relinquished to outsiders. The Nylon 66, a relatively inexpensive rimfire with faux woodgrain, was the first successful synthetic-stock firearm. Madis states Winchester spent a great deal of time and effort to develop better chokes. Furthermore, Winchester constantly experimented, searching for improvements in all chokes, even the old standby full choke. Winchester almost certainly would have perfected their Full-choke Model 12 duck gun to maximize patterns with #4 lead shot, the size most mentioned for long-range duck shooting in publications prior to the advent of non-toxic shot. another state. To elaborate on lowgun's response, the "round post" rib was made by Simmons, not Winchester. It won't be a collector but a shooter and should draw some attention. I fired 10 patterns for each of the five test loads in each of the two duck guns, for a total of 100 patterns. The Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun Proved Itself a Shooter, Colt No Longer Exclusive Owner of M4 Rifle, Mossberg 940 Pro Turkey & Tactical Review: Shotgun Shangri-La, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Fossari CRX9 Sporting Over/Under, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Browning Citori High Grade 50th Anniversary, 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). to be finishedat least thats what Stadt says in his book"Winchester, Shotguns and Shotshells"very interesting book.a little different look at M-12 than Madis and Riffle.WC. There is a moderate mark as shown in the photograph. The new value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($937.31) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $484.80 . 3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. H. Lea Lawrence relates in his 2001 GUN DIGEST article, The Saga of Bo Whoop, that in 1921 John Olin sent Buckingham his personal heavy double, a custom-choked Super Fox, for testing. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local It was Western that produced the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge magnum with 2 ounces of shot in 1932. Buckingham is jump-shooting with his big double gun. The earliest Simmons catalog I ever found was 1949 when Ernie began advertising his "Special vent rib" which was the "Dounut Post". Winchester needed to cut it's manufacturing costs and the milled vented rib was a costly proceedure. Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. Its failure to release on discharge made it impossible to shoot doubles [at skeet] with this particular sample. The staff concluded, Mechanically, the sample was not as good as other guns of the same model. Noted were machine marks on the breech bolt, wood not closely fitted, primers struck off center and sharp edges at the chamber.