Study those players and mimic their set-up and you will take another giant step toward playing better golf. And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. Club fitters are able to bend clubs to increase or decrease the lie angle using a loft, lie bending machine. Even if you want to say a weakened 4 iron is longer in length than a 5 iron of the same loft and therefore goes farther, your gaps in your set will still be equally proportionate. Say you start with a classic blade 7 iron with 40* static loft by how much could you reduce the loft in conjunction with a GI head design without launching the ball lower? What to consider when bending golf clubs. Fitters have to find some way to raise their ball flight, because those golfers lack the speed necessary to get the best results from many modern iron heads. Equipment counts courtesy of Darrell Survey. And its one of only two elements of the golf swing that require absolutely no physical skills. And here is why. If you change your AOA and go 2* steeper, both delivered loft and bounce is reduced by 2* Just curious for those who have personal experience with this as to the answer. Titleist does recommend no more than +/- 2 degrees from factory and you should be ok. Any more and there is a risk of the stress cracks in the hosel area (primarily cosmetic). Watch this great video here if you are curious on how to bend the lie angle of a club using a loft/lie machine: Impact tape is a tape that a club fitter places on the face of the golf club that creates marks of where the golfer struck the ball on the clubface. weight removed), Ball:1. Theyre selling the clubs by saying that you will hit them longer, yet like you said, many of those whod need the help arent really hitting at least the longer irons any longer. I dont pretend to be an expert, or even close. -How much do you vary on club delivery for Angle or attack and Dynamic loft? By If you are taking big divots with a 2 iron you have some serious problems with your swing. All data in this article is gathered from Shot Scopes database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique PRO LX+ laser rangefinder. Even with the knowledge of club bending and its importance on your play, there are a lot of misconceptions about what can and cant be done with a clubs loft and lie. Will I be digging too much? ENTER NOW! I play high bounce Ping G30's and have bent some of the clubs in that set that strong. ** Due to coronavirus and the work restrictions in place here in Michigan, for international orders, please email info@mitchellgolf.com for a complete quote. That means judging any of this due to the club head alone and isolated makes no sense, we have to include the player and his delivery of the head since thats what matters for if we can / should go weaker or stronger or leave it as it is. Routinely, I notice longer than standard 85g shafts with these sets. Equipment counts courtesy of Darrell Survey. This is a list of all clubheads that clubmakers are not allowed to bend. This puts a 5 iron at 60* and that is way too flat for most people. I tried it today but I can still hit my 6i farther than my 64 degree lw. question on bending a forged iron 2 degrees strong By ssfranny, January 22, 2019 in WRX Club Techs Reply to this topic Start new topic ssfranny Lefty Boomers 3.5k Feedback 20 0 0 Total Rating 100% Posted January 22, 2019 Have a set of basically new MP 53s I want to bend them 2 degrees strong to make them play more a modern loft. But, as lofts are strengthened the gaps become compressed on the long end and widened on the short. Getting your first putt inside three feet will greatly improve your score. . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. Some 5-irons are 27. Since loft and bounce is connected, and cant be split no matter what we do. Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 On the short end, as the pitching wedge loft gets stronger you end up with wider gaps in the scoring clubs. I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with the bounce/offset/loft. But bending an iron weak is not as well understood by many golfers, so they are more hesitant. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. i realize the distance and ball flight. Thankfully gone are the days of everyone demanding s300 S or X when they dont have the swing speed to support them. Great point I am a low ball hitter looking for more distance especially in my high irons. Compare that with 49-year-old Atwal, with a best of 49th place since 2021 and an average first-round placing of around 120th for his three starts in 2023, and Scott Brown, admittedly a former winner here, but now 719th in the world and who has, since September, withdrawn twice during tournaments, and missed his last two cuts (Pebble and Honda) ranking 99th and 136th for his first round he certainly looks wrong in every way. You dont need to bend the clubs. If they are not bent properly you can change the lie fairly easily unintentionally. If the club has an abundance of bounce and/or a rounded leading edge, reducing bounce by 2* might not matter. * MD4 54/10 S-Grind replacedMD3 54/12 W-Grind. Custom Edel E-3 Putter. What bounce does is keep the leading edge from digging into the ground. Should I see any difference in 1 degree stronger irons? Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver Definitely worth getting L/L check done and adjusted where necessary. Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX" The club only has .5 degrees of bounce as it is. But if your best place for improvement is in your approach shots or play with the long clubs, you simply must work on your fundamentals of the golf swing. Generall, Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. It is hard for some golfers to understand how irons with more loft can help them hit the ball farther, and this is understandable. So, if you really want to get better at golf, start by learning how to hold the club properly. Even the most skilled repair professionals can occasionally break a club. Clamp the piece in so only a 1/2 inch below where you want the bend in the angle iron is flush with the top of the vise. KBS even notes it in the swing speed recommendations for their different model shafts, as their very lightweight steel shafts are about a full flex softer frequency than the standard weight counterpart. Never go more than 2 degrees when making adjustments. By adding loft, those golfers achieve more ideal launch conditions, which means they carry shots farther and stop the ball faster on the green. Bottom line: bending 2* strong may or may not cause issues. Feb 3, 2013. I know for people with slower swing speeds these crazy lofted, ultimate SGI irons are perfect. Callaway Epic - HZRDUS BlackCobra F9 3 Wood Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lofts (plus minus 2*) My advice is to get fit as cheaply as you can and find some newer distance irons on Ebay or BST that can fit you. 00bolt, May 18, 2017 in WRX Club Techs. You can easily bend the lofts and lies to be progressively consistent from one club to the next with zero tolerance. Taylormade SIM UDI 2i / Diamana THUMP 100X, Taylormade P770 3i (bent weak) / Project X LS 6.5, Taylormade P7MC 5-7i, P7MB 8-9i / Project X LS 6.5. Tour Preferred X or TP5x ball. The bend overlap in angle iron will be bigger so you need to allow for a 1/2 inch. But regardless of the type of change you are trying to make, you also have to be willing to commit to it and suffer the learning period oftentimes you have to get worse (for a while) to get better (permanently). What still kills me are the guys coming in and demanding a lower lofted driver thinking it will give them more distance. Featured Section: "I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." I think it depends on the player and his swing. A long iron doesn't have much bounce anyway since it was made to not take a big divot. In fact, a sound, fundamental hold on the club is the first step in setting up for a technically sound golf swing. The trajectory, depending on your swing, should be flatter. I have read that if you bend 1 degree strong you lower the bounce on the iron. That is why getting the numbers is so important. Im 62 and most GI clubs are too long even for me in their stock iteration with this progressive shaft lengths concept. Keep the loft the same and take an extra club for the shot. Worked very well IMO in terms of reducing spin You will need to check your distances with these gapped lofts. The average golfer leaves 65 percent of all approach shots short of the green. I am a good long iron player and prefer them over fairway woods and especially hybrids. I can't say that they have kicked my 716 ap2 out for good, but for now the 716 cb are staying in the bag! How Long Do They Last, Driving Iron Advantages and Disadvantages, You are using clubs that are too tall for you (easy fix is to change the shaft length), You stand far away from the golf ball when making a swing. I think that makes a difference. See below the make percentage for an average golfer from varying distances. Upload or insert images from URL. I was fit for my current irons and they were bent 2 degrees strong for ball flight purposes. Sounds like it's a long iron. Sitemap. Free shipping for many products! All rights reserved. How much of static bounce is positive at impact?..we have to start from a static bounce of MORE than the difference to have any, and 31* minus 20.2* = 10.8 static bounce is needed to get ZERO. You will see it often when a pro, for example, will eliminate his 4 iron from the set and they may strengthen their 5 iron a degree or two and weaken their 3 iron a degree or two to even out the gaps. The two things are diametrically opposed in meaning of course. Introduce Yourself/ WIYB (What's In Your Bag), Lessons, Drills, Mental Game, and Fitness Tips. However, even a degree difference can affect the direction where the ball might start out and can be the difference between you hitting the green, and you landing in a bunker! "so, any advice, I keep air mailing greens with my PW from 140, this is really hurting my score. ProV1x-mostly. I have a 17-degree 4-wood, a 21-degree hybrid, a 26-degree hybrid, and a 29-degree iron as my longer (non-driver) clubs. Since such a precise hit is needed to take advantage of the lower loft, the average distance each club hits the ball tends to converge at lower lofts for less-skilled players. They know how much torque to put on the hozzel. I showed him all the stats on the monitor and he was in agreement but when it came to buying the actual driver he insisted on buying the 9.5 head with the TP after all the work on the launch monitor. Forged titanium models are bendable as well due to their softer titanium structure. Whether you can still hit the ball in the air and make good contact is dependent on your swing. Among full-swing clubs, drivers have the lowest degrees of loft (some pros use drivers with as little as 7 degrees of loft; most recreational golfers use drivers lofted at 9 to 14 degrees). I am now thinking I am just going to bend my 712 Ap2 irons to the 714 AP2 specs so my gaps will match up better with my wedges. The fitter can then analyze a golfers swing pattern and adjust the lie angle accordingly. Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights. Good luck! High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. This is a statistic that is fairly consistent across all abilities of amateur golfers with only a five percent difference across all golfers. Newer irons, however, are designed with a loft angle that is between 18 and 22 degrees. Callaway MD 3 52 bent to 54 [size=4]KBS 610 S+[/size] Everyone's comments are super helpful! For you lower swing speed players, go to blades with weaker lofts or better yet go to an old vintage blades with the pitching wedge 52 degrees, and you can hit the ball farther hehe. On the opposite and gapping from AW to 9i is very wide about 16 yards about between clubs. If you have any doubt about the hand position, think of this scenario. The 2-degree limit is only recommended when changing the lofts on irons due to the potential effect such bends will have on the sole angle of the club. When this happens, its usually the result of some type of inconsistency in the metallurgy of the club. Thank you for such an eye opening article. I just purchased a new set of 716MB irons. Clear editor. For this discussion, lets define proficiency as the level where you can reasonably expect to move the ball around the course efficiently and consistently enough to shoot 90 or better, though your own goals might be somewhere lower. Iwas wondering if I could bend my 712 AP2 irons strong and not see any changes in the irons. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred) ||Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag. The average golfer hits a 7-iron to around 30 yards from the pin. sorry, didnt mean increase loft. Weakening lofts makes zero sense to me. Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights, Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong. Bettinardi Studio Stock SS28, Didn't think of that. You can post now and register later. If you are a true sweeper that may be ok but you may not see that big distance gain you are hoping for. Low bounce irons can become more digging prone from this change. I am wanting to bend my 5-PW one degree stronger and my 4 irontwo degrees stronger to fit better with my wedges and hybrid golf club. I was thinking of bending my irons 3 degrees stronger as my ball flights were too high, but then there would be a big gap to fill between the pitching wedge and the gap wedge, and potentially more side effects of bending the clubs then. You cannot paste images directly. The refit yielded a super driving iron. Are you above or below average for some or all of these statistics? There was only an added 2 yards with the stronger lofts of trackman. Pasted as rich text. It's a club you pick off the turf anyway. Hi all, I was wondering if bending a club 2* strong would affect the playability of said club? Best Shaft For Wedges, Need A New Golf Glove? I know it will increase the bounce. This will change the trajectory of the ball, and can potentially cause misdirected shots. The difference after they were set to factory lofts and lie for my swing was amazing! In some cases "craftsman's" marks on the hosels may result from bending them to the required loft / lie. I've never had a sand wedge bent. More photos from the event here. If jacking with strong lofting one you need to have a good fitter/ instructor work with you on your model suggestion and what will fit your swing. We're not robotic enough to predict that exactly 3 or 4 degrees is the correct gap empirically. If you want to simply hit the ball further, find an iron that launches really high and spins really low, you will knuckle ball the shot a long ways, but odds are you will not be able to control yardages or stop the ball under most conditions. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. I created this website after hearing the same questions from my students over and over as a place where new golfers can come to learn and improve their golf game. Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver Craig, If its putting or greenside scoring, spend your time working on those aspects instead of beating balls on the range. Lynx Black Cat irons were set this way, so I had to have the 5 iron bent 2*, the 6 iron 1.5, the 7 iron 1.0 and the 8 iron .5 (this was my experimental set). I even fitted a customer with a new SLDR and put him in a 12 degree head with a TP shaft. More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. And here is why. Bending strong 2* decreases bounce by 2* and increases offset by about .75mm. Now if you take some of the modern GI irons with the thick sole and rounded leading edge (Infiniti brand Assure comes to mind) you can de loft or strong loft it 3 or 4 degrees with no problem at all. 10.5 set at small - So, I am now waiting for a major brand to market and advertise that their new, weaker lofts will add distance for most golfers. First, is it safe to have P790s bent that much? I know its different for each golfer depending on their individual characteristics but do you have rough numbers (for iron set) to be looking for in terms of launch angle, spin rate etc. But if a high spin player gets a 15 launch and 6000 RPM with a 115 MPH ball speed with a 5-iron, then whats wrong with that? Changing the lie angle of a club can help golfers more consistently hit shots off of the center of the clubface. This happens probably most frequently with wedges, when a person wants to play 3 instead of 4 wedges for example. Seriously. I just switched from Wilson Ci9 to Taylormade TP MC, and Ive gained almost 15 yards despite the lofts being higher. Any knowledge on the subject would be appreciated. Restore formatting, Sign up to receive product offers and news! All very well getting consistent loft gaps if your distance gaps are varied. When I was fitted for my 714 AP-2's it was the Titleist fitter who suggested we go 1 degree strong, but it take very little divot. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Great answer Blake. A typical #6 iron on the Tour is 31* on loft but Dynamic loft is average only 20.2 You must log in or register to reply here. So if you are steep or tend to take a pretty good divot, you may not want to bend them more than a degree. Plus, those superlight steel shafts in the 85-90 gram range feel like a softer flex than what is listed, probably due to the thinner steel in the shaft. Nick so, how much difference can CoG location make to the optimum loft? This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. Each one of those sees him rightly disputing the market number one, but Im not sure I can get involved at around 20-25-to-one with any of the favourites, even if they hold excellent claims. One other thing is that some clubs are designed from the factory strong lofted to begin with Taylor Made GI irons are a good example of this. Older irons can be bent to achieve better gaping and additional distance, but the distance increases will be very small. Titleist Vokey 47* Oban CT 125, 51*, 55*, and 59* Shimada Tour Wedge Black I use Ping I Blades and Ping have a 'power spec' on their website for these where the lofts can be bent to and still retain playabilty. The 2 that were out the most went from 'avoided' clubs to 'favourites'! Still have questions? I did this to reduce the spin rate. The concern is that all the fitting carts only have 6 irons and with the gaping on the 3, 4 and 5 irons lonely being 3* I am concerned on irons would react to my adjustments. This will give you a low-to-mid-range straight shot. The simple fact is that good golf cannot be played with a bad grip on the club. Golfers can see their spin rate drop thousands of RPMs from the rough (depending on the rough and type of lie), so being able to keep their shots in the air with enough spin to stop the ball on the green can be a huge part of helping them shoot lower scores. Production Manager Wesley Turner: Five Years in the Bag. He is also 1 of 33 TrackMan Masters in the world, and has completed thousands of successful fittings using TrackMan. At 100 mph you are obliterating the ground. with more loft than its designed for, so he cant go wrong by bending heads stronger. Thanks everybody for the help! Your link has been automatically embedded. Your link has been automatically embedded. You get to replace the 4 iron thats gone with something you can get in the air. Maybe its conceptually challenging but when all sets came 3-PW with heads the size of your pinky-toe, golfers either left their 3 iron home or just used it for low punch shots back to the fairway; back then, a well-hit 6 iron would outdistance an over-muscled 3 iron seven times out of 10. Secondly, it also takes absolutely no athletic ability to learn how to set up in the proper posture to make a sound golf swing possible. I'm not so much of a digger with long irons, and I thought about getting my rogue 5i bent a degree stronger and not carry a 4. I am not sure exactly what you are asking with the final 2 questions, are you asking should the 5 and 7 iron have the same launch conditions as the 6 iron, or would there be any issues if your 5 iron or the 7 iron launched like the ideal conditions for the 6 iron? i dont need that. If the added ball speed of modern irons is not enough to achieve an ideal landing angle, I have to add loft. However, recent form has shown the real Grant, with back-to-back class efforts at Torrey Pines and Pebble Beach, where at the former he led an elite field after a first-round 64. Display as a link instead, Copyright 2022 MyGolfSpy We also see these players having gapping issues with a mid iron, not just 4 and 5 like your example, so adding loft achieves better gapping as well. From my research into various golfer communities, it is highly likely that if you are reading this blog post you probably are playing to somewhere between a 5 and 16 handicap. Espana. What bouncedoes is keep the leading edge from digging into the ground. Unless of course it's a long iron and you have a hard time elevating it in the first place. well unfortunately people buy clubs based on their ego and the club manufactures feed it. most amateurs like to hit the long ball not the low score. Another reason why stronger lofts dont always mean more distance is something I do frequently to help golfers hit the ball farther weaken lofts. Using a club bending machine to change the angle on a golf club is among the fastest ways to improve a players ball flight. The Wedge Guy: What really makes a wedge work. Hi! The so-called "standard" lie angles are 9 iron at 64* with a spacing of 1 deg between clubs. Titleist U500 3 & 4 Oban Kiyoshi Purple Tour Reserve FAQs Just about every club that leaves the factory won't be 100% spot on for loft, manufacturing tolerances are going to throw that out. An Aussie with a residence in Scottsdale, playing on a windy coastal track this is a great chance. Feel free to browse around and see if anything catches your eye! Ping Glide wedges w/Recoil 110 St Louis, MO. Often, golfers think they need to make more birdies in order to score better or become a better golfer, when in reality it is minimizing the bad shots and bad holes that can have more impact. Haven't registered for Team Titleist yet? Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X, In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. VokeySM6 Raw- 50F, Scotty Cameron X5R Flow Neck Torched Finish. Oh, and Jason Day is reputed to have bent some of his irons strong and I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with ego. Bubba might better be able to answer that question, I know you can with the mb or cbs. Your previous content has been restored. Now as lower handicappers, we will probably not have our hands at impact fluctuating 3, 4 or 6 inches, but I would not say mine are within an inch of exactly the same place every time. A flat lie angle is simply when the heel of the golf club is bent so it is higher than the toe. (more on this down below). I haven't built them yet, i was wondering if the results are still working out a year or so later? Does that create the maximum distance for that ball speed? I am glad you mentioned shaft length, static lengths for GI clubs, how it impacts flight, etc. The only way you would see a difference is if you put them side by side with another set of Ap2's that are not bent. What do you mean about not seeing any changes in your irons? Might actually help on hard ground. If you're a true picker, wont make you a digger. That said, no equipment can make up for poor fundamentals in your approach to moving a golf ball around three to four miles of real estate in the least number of strokes. Ball speed from the new irons is what is creating the distance. From my observation of thousands of golfers of all skill levels, far too many are deficient in the fundamentals, starting with the grip, and then to the set-up and only then to the swing motion. The point is today, regardless of your skill level, if you work on making your grip and your set up closer to the proven fundamentals of the best players in the game, your path to better golf becomes infinitely easier. GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, Tuesday at 04:47 PM, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, By But the end result for an iron fitting is the same: I want the customer to leave with a set of irons that produce the best possible launch conditions for them. That is a two club difference. Couldn't agree more with your entire post. The golfwrx wannabe touring pros will argue otherwise.. After reading the headline I was expecting a slightly different subject discussed but this topic is something Ive been wondering about myself. Albion, MI 49224 716 MB'S It sorts my gapping out perfectly as a result. You can post now and register later.
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